We do need to talk about mental health. As a culture. But, sorry, I am not going to read Techcrunch article about it.
Even publications that dedicated to following mental health (and ostensibly authored by "experts" in the field) tend to do a dubious job of describing what is an extremely complicated problem to which THERE IS NO QUICK FIX. Read that again. Addressing mental healthy problems is very hard work and treatment plans vary by individuals (not even by disease) so even once you find a doctor you like - no easy task - and whether you go into psychotherapy or the psychiatric [aka prescribed] route or both - you have a long, hard road ahead of you which will require a lot of patience from you and those that you maintain relationships with whether they are work or personal.
There are lots of mental health disorders of which depression is a common symptom. It's important to work with a doctor you feel comfortable with to figure out if you suffer from depression, or if the root cause is some other disorder (OCD, bi-polar, anxiety are common amongst SDE types) which routinely causes you to feel depressed for days or weeks (or god forbid, months) at a time.
Even if you are comfortable going the medication route (and there are many reasons why this choice should not be made lightly, especially if it is via anti-depressants or another - they're all habit forming and bring their own set of side-effects and problems), it is a long an arduous process to find the right one/right dosage/etc. that will work for you (if there even is one). Each one takes weeks to see results typically.
Anti-depressants help some people greatly. Others will struggle with them and find them counter-productive to their treatment. There is no one-size-fits-all treatment plan. Mental health is a subject that doesn't get attention in any facet of American culture.
PS. There is no evidence to suggest that the software industry suffers disproportionately from mental health issues compared to any other.
You're right in many ways, but you should read the article. It's not your run-of-the-mill tech article about "depression" being a temporary sadness brought on by work-related stress, the founder's lifestyle, or any of that typical pablum. It's the personal story of someone who is clinically depressed, has been hospitalized for that depression, and wants to make understanding of depression -- actual depression, not strawman-depression -- more widespread and accepted.
Why should she have written this for TechCrunch? Why not? The tech industry exerts enormous pressure to signal that one is a rockstar, that everything is better than fine, and that you're not just keeping up with the Joneses; you're lapping them. It's about time the tech press talked about depression as it really is, and not "depression" as a neutered buzzword for stress. And it's about time someone -- anyone -- restarted the national dialogue regoing about clinical depression and mental health.
In 2014, the stigma surrounding depression is every bit as harsh as it was in 1998, when I was diagnosed. In some ways it's even harsher. That really sucks. We need people to talk about it, and to be honest, the more people talking about it, the better. If one of those places happens to be TC, and so long as TC isn't peddling a watered-down version of the topic, I'm all for it. By the same token, if Sam Altman wants to talk about depression and wants to do his part to alleviate the stigma, I'm all for it. None of these articles is ever going to be perfect, or capture 100% of the issue. But I'm glad we're getting these articles, nonetheless. For decades, this was something people just didn't talk about or admit to in public. I'll take public.
In 2014, the stigma surrounding depression is every bit as harsh as it was in 1998, when I was diagnosed. In some ways it's even harsher. That really sucks.
I think it's worse. People are more aware of the illness itself, but there's more conformity, which means that it's harder to find accommodation for symptoms that are mild but embarrassing (e.g. needing a quiet room, instead of an open-plan hell, to recover from a panic attack).
What's new and upsetting is the competitive conformity of the Millennial generation (or maybe I'm just biased against my won age group). Gen Xers in 1995 may have had to show up for work at 9:00 and wear slacks, but they didn't rat each other out. They knew it was them against the system. The rising generation seems to have more house-slave types who'll rat each other out. I don't mind conforming (to a reasonable degree) and I don't mind competing, but when people compete to conform I just want to punch everyone in the face.
About the need for a quiet room -- I totally agree with you. I wonder how many engineers talk about needing a door which can close for reasons like 'I need to focus' when the real reason is 'I have an anxiety disorder which is exasperated by chaos and eased by quiet.' I know I've said the first without mentioning the second.
In fact I turned down an offer purely because of an office plan which would put me between a Ping pong table and a room full of people (in an open office plan).
You're mentioning some very important points, but I disagree that stories like these are not helpful. The first step to treating complex problems like these is acknowledging that they exist in the first place. The second step is to create an environment where it is okay to open up about mental health issues. Both of these points are addressed by this story.
You're talking about the third step, which is ensuring an environment where people can get the correct treatments and address the issues in a helpful way. I think this is vital to ensure that most people who suffer from anxiety, recurring depressive episodes or other symptoms that are triggered by a hard-and-fast lifestyle, get lasting benefit from treatment.
The problem is, most Americans (and Hacker News is in no way an exception to this) are stuck somewhere before point 1 and 2. So just opening the discussion up a little, is in fact moving in the right direction.
Although I do agree that someone should point out that "just be cheerful", "just talk to somebody", "just take a holiday" is dangerous advice which only serves to sometimes reduce the pressure a little. Doing things like these rarely addresses the underlying issues (unlucky genetics, unrealistic ambitions, unhealthy lifestyle, self-destructive thought patterns, unresolved relationship to traumatic memories, etc).
The article is basically saying the same thing, for what it's worth, and is written by someone who claims to have extensive experience with the same issues you're discussing.
The main message is "If you're feeling these things, please talk to someone you trust. If someone talks to you about these issues, please don't dismiss them." I think it's a good message, even if presented at Techcrunch. The more we as a culture talk about mental health issues in a constructive way the better.
My best friend was recently diagnosed with ADHD, at the age of 26. He was really surprised to find it out.
I, On the other hand was not surprised.
We discussed how is it possible that he was only diagnosed now.
His response was striking and ming opening: "I had never experienced not having ADHD. How could I know that my experience is not normal ?".
I completely agree with your response. We must talk about mental health and raise awareness to mental health problems.
`paul, I'm surprised by your comment, especially given that you're typically a very insightful and productive commenter on HN. Is this a reference to a similar reply `thathonkey once made to one of your comments?
His comment on the TC article started by saying, "But, sorry, I am not going to read Techcrunch article about it.", so I replied in similar form. It's a meta commentary :)
Sure, and I think that's well-acknowledged. Yes, we need to beat the stigma. However, that's not going to cure these illnesses. It'll just give people who have them a fair chance to recover. It's just one step, but it's an important one. For people in the mild-moderate stretch of the spectrum, the worst thing about these diseases (I'm bipolar) is that people kick you when you're down.
There is no evidence to suggest that the software industry suffers disproportionately from mental health issues compared to any other.
I don't know if we have a higher incidence of these problems (although it wouldn't surprise me) but we suffer in some unique ways. First, many of us work in open-plan offices. That's already unhealthy. But consider further that it takes a bit of an obsessive nature to get good at what we do. We genuinely want to do our jobs well, and get frustrated (and measurably anxious) when impeded. An open-plan environment that makes concentration impossible can be hell for a person like that.
Then add the "Agile" micromanagement, which is really just designed to put people on a treadmill and shoot the people who (for whatever reason) can't keep pace. Now, added to the existing risk of having a bad week is anxiety about having a bad week.
We've let The Business treat us like garbage, and the result is that we're constantly insulted with bad working conditions, micromanagement, low autonomy and deeply punitive environments. Some people can laugh this off, and many more of us get cynical with time, but the obsessively inclined people who tend to become programmers don't do so as easily, because they care deeply about doing their jobs well and then get handed an environment that makes it impossible.
Even publications that dedicated to following mental health (and ostensibly authored by "experts" in the field) tend to do a dubious job of describing what is an extremely complicated problem to which THERE IS NO QUICK FIX. Read that again. Addressing mental healthy problems is very hard work and treatment plans vary by individuals (not even by disease) so even once you find a doctor you like - no easy task - and whether you go into psychotherapy or the psychiatric [aka prescribed] route or both - you have a long, hard road ahead of you which will require a lot of patience from you and those that you maintain relationships with whether they are work or personal.
There are lots of mental health disorders of which depression is a common symptom. It's important to work with a doctor you feel comfortable with to figure out if you suffer from depression, or if the root cause is some other disorder (OCD, bi-polar, anxiety are common amongst SDE types) which routinely causes you to feel depressed for days or weeks (or god forbid, months) at a time.
Even if you are comfortable going the medication route (and there are many reasons why this choice should not be made lightly, especially if it is via anti-depressants or another - they're all habit forming and bring their own set of side-effects and problems), it is a long an arduous process to find the right one/right dosage/etc. that will work for you (if there even is one). Each one takes weeks to see results typically.
Anti-depressants help some people greatly. Others will struggle with them and find them counter-productive to their treatment. There is no one-size-fits-all treatment plan. Mental health is a subject that doesn't get attention in any facet of American culture.
PS. There is no evidence to suggest that the software industry suffers disproportionately from mental health issues compared to any other.