On a similar dental hygiene note, I was told I should brush before having breakfast, coffee etc. It always stood to reason to me that it makes more sense to just eat my first meal and drink, then brush, to keep a cleaner state of my teeth for longer but supposedly according to a few dentists I spoke with, the protection you get from the first brush is more significant than removing those first food particles.
Chances are you already have a lot bacteria in your mouth and once you eat your breakfast (which for many is sugary) they immediately eat and consume this and produce acid. So, brush before breakfast, supposedly.
This can go wrong in either direction. If you brush your teeth and have milk shortly after, the fluoride binds to the calcium in milk and goes to your belly instead of staying with your teeth protecting them. On the other hand if you have orange juice or similar (acidic) and then brush your teeth, say bye to your tooth enamel.
I've only been brushing my teeth before bed for like 6 years at this point, and flossing once a week or so. I don't know if it's the fluoride alcohol mouth wash I use or just dumb luck, but I haven't gotten any cavities
So I think that given this rigorous scientific data, you can safely avoid brushing for the most part
A lot of it is diet too. Not eating or drinking sugary things gives you much more room for error. Of course you still need to brush and floss, but in my experience sugar + rigorous cleaning can still leave you with cavities whereas no sugar + lax cleaning you're probably fine. No sugar + rigorous cleaning and you might never need a dentist again. It took me way too long to understand this.
fwiw, I have pretty bad teeth (~10K for crowns etc a few years ago).
And I switched to only brushing with an electric toothbrush before bed, and don't really floss and think I've only had one small cavity since then and the hygienist said my teeth looked quite good in general.
Worth noting that I have a good diet and rarely eat sugar beyond yogurt.
No need to worry, we are all in the process of dying, so the correct answer is just to ignore everything that isn't either: something that strikes you as incredibly obvious (don't drink poison), recognized in its field of experts (high cholesterol is bad for you), established knowledge, or not too inconvenient.
> recognized in its field of experts (high cholesterol is bad for you)
Public service announcement: this one is controversial. IMHO it's wrong, based on bad science and agendas, and harmful because it deters people from nutritious foods. I recommend everyone do their own reading to form their own opinion.
It's sad how political food and nutrition is because it causes misinformation and malnutrition.
My rudimentary understanding: chronic high blood sugar causes irritation of blood vessels; irritated blood vessels attempt to protect themselves by producing a protective layer (excretion?); cholesterol sticks much more readily to this‚ causing creation of plaques. So, cholesterol is "fine" if you avoid high blood sugar.
Did you know that after brushing with toothpaste you're supposed to just...let the foam hang around in your mouth without rinsing it out for 30 minutes? I didn't until recently, and now that I do, I'm still not gonna walk around with toothpaste foam in my mouth.
How much foam do you end up with? I usually don't rinse out the toothpaste after, but I don't end up with a foaming mouth after. I use about a pea size amount (as recommended on the packaging) and it's not super sudsy when I'm finished. Wipe my face and done.
I'm confused - what food bits? Do you have detectable food bits left over after brushing or is it an impression that there must be food still left over?
At least for me, I rinse out my mouth before I brush, so I don't expect to have detectable gunk left over. I also use a tongue scraper after, so I'm usually feeling pretty clean when I'm done.
Well both, stuff between the teeth that the brush doesn't get (I guess that's why you'd floss after brushing, but also with foam in your mouth?), and also just food microparticles that would go away when rinsing after brushing generally.
I suppose it helps to floss before brushing (as recommended) but for me personally the stray particle isn't something I've worried about. In my mind, the added benefit of retaining the fluoride longer outweighs the downsides of microparticles of food.
Honestly, the timing of flossing is the least important thing about it, considering most people are averse to even doing it. The payoff with flossing before brushing is that any gunk that gets brought out and left over after rinsing gets scrubbed away during brushing.
There's a particular prescription strength toothpaste I use when I get sensitive teeth. I keep it specifically for post-dinner brushing and it's easier to do this at that time.
The evidence is just lacking, people are just using judgement to advise on something that we can't detect one way or another with research.
When it comes to dental care it's not even clear, based on research (Cochrane review in 2019) it flossing makes any difference let alone a clinically useful difference.
The current advice is just based on reasoning that either you brush first or wait a hour after eating due to the abrasive action of brushing.
It's not clear because it IS nuanced, and it doesn't have the same effect on everyone equally. Two people using the exact same dental routine can have vastly different results from it.
I’m glad ifnflossing helps fights cavity but the main reason I do it is because it’s so gross not to. When you don’t floss you basically accept to keep bits of rotten food between your teeth for days. If you’re unconvinced, don’t floss for a week and then do, see what comes out. And don’t smell it. I warned you.
People's teeth (and brushing technique/effectiveness) are way too varied to make such a general statement. I flossed for the first time at some point in my 20s, did religiously for a year or so thereafter, and still do occasionally - but at no point was it like 'how on Earth have I not been doing this' or loads of gunk coming out, nevermind rotten and smelly. Maybe you have just the 'right' tooth gap that it's both too tight for your brushing but not so tight that stuff doesn't get stuck.
(And for whatever it's worth, all dental check-ups since some point in my early teens at the latest have just been a quick look around and yep all good - I'm not saying this from a position (touching wood I don't eat my hat next time of course) of terrible dental health.)
A checkup shouldn't be too quick, there are things they should be checking and looking out for:
https://youtu.be/sDe50j0MFBU?t=95 (Dental Office RED FLAGS)
> People's teeth (and brushing technique/effectiveness) are way too varied
You're absolutely correct, because I don't floss that often, but every time I do a whole meal comes out, so I'm incredibly envious of your naturally clean teeth XD
Regarding flossing, at least in my case, it helps with my gum disease. If I don't floss for a while my gums start to bleed. Although, I use a water floss instead of a regular rope floss
Yeah, flossing is a good idea if you don't want to get gum disease. Also a good idea to learn to floss correctly, not just a quick "in and out". (also good idea so you don't get cavities on the edges of your teeth.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WviE5aa5Ha0 (how to floss)
IMO teeth are the worst part of the human body. Hard to take care of, will inevitably fail, not replaceable, massively painful for even minor injuries. Evolution really screwed the pooch on teeth.
Our diet is nothing like what our teeth evolved for. For example for most people, cutting down the amount of sugars (down to levels similar to our prehistoric ancestors) they consume can go a long way in protecting dental health (and general health for that matter)
Somewhere evolution is saying “well I gave you four perfectly decent extra molars that you insist on ripping out, if you kept those your teeth would be mostly fine for however long your are supposed to live. Mid 50’s?”
Evolution expects us to grind away about a millimeter of our teeth while we are young by eating rougher things to make way for wisdom teeth, for example.
For healthy teeth, you should be very hydrated. If your mouth isn’t watering, you might not be hydrated enough.
Well, teeth perform perhaps the most difficult task of the entire body. Take entirely external substances of all kinds of textures and densities and contaminants, crush all that to tiny particles, try not to get worn down too far in the process...
People in the past had better teeth than us, it's the sugar these days that cause so many dental problems. If you ate like those in the past, you similarly will have good teeth.
> I have never realised something as simple as brushing teeth can be so nuanced lol
I feel like replacing "brushing teeth" with literally anything and your sentence is also correct and a good way to think. Especially the things we think are easy. There's a reason it took us thousands of years to do certain things.
Genes, climate, and types of local foods play a role too, but widespread adoption of agriculture made diets rich in carbs and starchy foods possible, which isn't great for dental health, and the somewhat recent trend (last 200~ years) of highly processed foods that are softer and easier to chew means there's less mechanisms to deal with tooth overcrowding. This has been observed in children from hunter gatherer societies, raised on modern diets, having worse dental hygiene than their parents.
> Teeth-cleaning twigs have long been used throughout human history.[2] As long ago as 3000 B.C., the ancient Egyptians constructed crude toothbrushes from twigs and leaves to clean their teeth. Similarly, other cultures such as the Greeks, Romans, Arabs and Indians also cleaned their teeth with twigs. Some would fray one end of the twig so that it could penetrate between the teeth more effectively.
Acid loosens the enamel, so careful with anything like good rinsing or brushing right after consuming acidic items. Just drink some water (optional light rinse) and wait around 30 minutes to brush.
* Disclaimer: I am not a dentist, you should find a good one and talk to them for real advice.
I try to brush before eating and drinking, but on the rare occasions I end up brushing afterwards, I wait the better part of an hour so that the acids are well enough diluted to cause trouble.
Yep. Thats why they recommended to wait about 30mins after brushing before you eat. Also at least 30 mins after brushing before eating. Ideally don't graze eat throughout the day.
Highly recommend checking out the TeethTalk YouTube, she's a Dental Hygienist and covers allot of dental topics, and it's free. idk where your from, but dentists here are crazy expensive.
https://www.youtube.com/@TeethTalk
I think it's both the bacteria thing – getting rid of them before they can start metablizing your food into stuff to harm your enamel – and the idea that directly following food intake, your mouth pH level will be out of homeostasis and enamel may be easier to erode at "non-native" pHs and one shouldn't brush directly after. I'm not sure where I got that from though.
This is due to the foaming agents used in most toothpastes. The biggest culprit is sodium lauryl (ether) sulphate (SLES/ SLS). These foaming agents are surfactants and they bind to certain taste receptors in your mouth, thus altering your taste perception. You can avoid this entirely by switching your toothpaste to something that uses no foaming agents or those of the non-surfactant type.
Some people are also allergic to them. I was getting canker sores in my mouth for years without understand why.
Then my cousin discovered he’s allergic to SLS. I quit toothpaste with SLS and I never get them anymore. It’s rare but you never know who else struggles with it and doesn’t know.
Do you know any US toothpaste without sulphates that is not a scam like 99% of the brands, that typically charge 300% more for ADs like (whitening bla bla..)
I've heard that brushing right after eating is really bad for your teeth because just after you eat, the bacteria in your mouth start producing acid that, for lack of a better word, loosens the surface enamel in your teeth, and brushing in that state discards that enamel instead of letting it resettle after the acid washes away.
The solubility of enamel is insanely low so the effect should be minor at most, but still.
Mine says half an hour before or after, which I like because it makes sense. He also suggests after lunch, and of course in the evening, which obviously comes after breakfast - so it's kind of annoying (you know, to the kind of person spending time on HN) to leave it at 'brush before breakfast not after' or vice versa...
Acidity is more the issue aiui, I don't really eat breakfast typically but my dentist's example was coffee (to which I don't add sugar) - drink water after coffee, and don't brush for half an hour after.
Trader Joe's peppermint anticavity toothpaste. Was a bit odd at first as it has baking soda in it, but after a tube or two I think regular toothpaste is really the odd tasting one now. Cheapish.
IIRC the reason for this is that antibodies are actually in your saliva, which moves around your mouth much less while you're sleeping. Thus, bacteria have a more favorable environment at night.
I couldn't imagine consuming anything before brushing my teeth, but this is coming from a retainer wearer so I think that might have something to do with it.
Chances are you already have a lot bacteria in your mouth and once you eat your breakfast (which for many is sugary) they immediately eat and consume this and produce acid. So, brush before breakfast, supposedly.