Well said. No matter the influence of Russians nor widespread manipulation by Cambridge Analytica, the reality is that people chose to believe these things without their own personal endeavor into critical inquiry. And I'm not talking about that white working class "base" that people like to attribute as Trump's secret weapon.
I know plenty of people, truly well meaning individuals, who are not the dumb animals most outlets like to paint the Trump supporters as. They were just conned into it all, and I'm sure shady Facebook ads had a hand in it, but ultimately it was just trusting people suckered in by a television personality (or character, even).
If this election is the spark that eventually instills a sense of proper analytical reasoning skills in the United States at large, then I'll be satisified. And I say this as a person who, if I could vote in this country, would certainly have not have entertained the idea of Donald Trump at all.
I believe you missed my point. Those that cry foul over those targeted Facebook ads also fail to realize that people were still willing to drink the Kool-Aid.
Of course, it would be asinine to paint with broad strokes. But one can't disregard that it takes two to tango in exchanges of ideas and information.
You're implying that we all were conned, yet I'm still a happy supporter of Trump and will continue to be, yet here I am not a redneck, extremely tolerant, not a racist, incredibly kind, etc. Maybe you've been conned on who a Trump supporter is.
Perhaps I should have been more explicit. I was intending to refer to those who regret their choice after having realized that not all of what they read or heard was true and so made their decision on effectively just an emotional impulse.
Thank you for enlightening me on why the previous user was so aggressive in his rebuke. I can see how, if somebody is happy with their choice, they may have felt slighted and assumed I implied that they, too, were conned.
I can appreciate that somebody's personal calculus is different from my own. However, those whom I have encountered that regret their decision articulate it in such terms that "con" really is the proper descriptor.
> Maybe you've been conned on who a Trump supporter is.
given trump's nature, it's unlikely one who isn't a fan will give much credence to such self-attestations.
for example a trump supporter may say they are "not a racist", but many see that trump supporters simply do not talk about race in the same way, so the expression doesn't mean much.
The truth is if the US doesn't fix illegal immigration and put a general slowdown on legal immigration then conservatives are done for and their way of life is going to be slowly destroyed.
All indicators show first and second gen migrants overwhelmingly vote for Democrats.
Yes, the conservatives are done for. That is, the party itself will fail to stay relevant.
This doesn't matter to voters. They ought to pick whoever will best serve them. So in that sense, I would argue that yes, they were conned in some respects.
> Yes, the conservatives are done for. That is, the party itself will fail to stay relevant.
I think it's the opposite - the people are done for. The party will just shift its stances. In many respects it already has - Trump faces almost as much opposition within his own party as from the Democrats.
If Trump doesn't sort out immigration expect the US to shift closer in laws and accepted practices to the UK.
Ah, I see. That's certainly an interesting hypothesis. Makes me wonder who the Republican party would target if their typical base evaporates. What would incline center-leaning individuals to continue to support the party after the shitshow that was the 2016 election?
Now you've got me looking forward to how this all turns out even more! :)
It could go a couple of ways - Trump could fix immigration - if "they" can remove the anti-Trump Repubs in the house or pick up a few extra seats then he has a good chance.
If he doesn't then I see a shift to socially conservative (in the religious sense) but pro-welfare.
New immigrants in general are socially conservative. As are a big chunk of current Dem voters - my extended family are all catholic and vote Dems.
some of this is the hostility immigrants feel from republicans and republican voters. as such, the gop and it's constituents contribute to (or perhaps even principally cause) this.
the premise that all/most immigrants "are liberals" (by apparent virtue of their immigrant-ness) is almost hilariously a stereotypical position to hold. i wonder what a gop explanation for why that is true would look like.
> some of this is the hostility immigrants feel from republicans and republican voters.
A little. But it's not one of the big three drivers -
The first is social welfare.
The second comes down to ideology - American conservatives have a unique brand of beliefs.
For example the value placed on:
- Freedom of speech
- Firearms
- Individual liberty over collective safety/feelings/effective policy
These traits are not shared by conservatives in the rest of the world. In the U.K. for example the majority of conservatives are happy with strict firearm control.
The third is personality - American conservatives are loud, proud, straight talking, and rough-edged - this rubs conservatives from other countries the wrong way.
I know plenty of people, truly well meaning individuals, who are not the dumb animals most outlets like to paint the Trump supporters as. They were just conned into it all, and I'm sure shady Facebook ads had a hand in it, but ultimately it was just trusting people suckered in by a television personality (or character, even).
If this election is the spark that eventually instills a sense of proper analytical reasoning skills in the United States at large, then I'll be satisified. And I say this as a person who, if I could vote in this country, would certainly have not have entertained the idea of Donald Trump at all.