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I wonder if Europeans see the vicious circle they are in.

Step 1: More job regulations.

Step 2: Employees cost more and are harder to get rid of; Businesses less inclined to hire.

Step 3: Jobs are hard to get, so employees ask for more security from the government.

Repeat.



Virtually all jobs affected by this ruling are in the local services and construction business. Think masons, plumbers, etc.

As a) these jobs are by definition locally bound and b) the ruling affects all employers in these industries equally, I have a hard time seeing how that should negatively affect the employment situation.

Edit: We had a similar event in Germany: About a year ago a minimum wage law has been introduced. The industries affected are largely the same. The fears were the same: Overregulation was expected to be a job killer. The empirical results: New regular jobs have been created in these industries.


Like Germany, unemployment rate 4.7% and strong job protections?


No, more like all the countries that aren't Germany.

Or do you think it's a breeze seeking a job in France (unemployment ~10%), Italy (unemployment ~13%), Spain (unemployment ~20%), Greece (unemployment ~25%)...

There's many others if you want to take a look. http://www.statista.com/statistics/268830/unemployment-rate-...


Please take a look at the following graph: https://sturdyblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/greece-workin...

All your listed countries have higher working hours than Germany. In fact, the working hours in Greece are 50% higher than in Germany.

Annual working hours are highly correlated with unemployment rate. Note I'm not saying that a causes b, but the correlation is obvious.

On the other hand, there is no empirical evidence of workers' rights protection causing unemployment. That narrative often gets repeated, but that doesn't make it true.


> Annual working hours are highly correlated with unemployment rate. Note I'm not saying that a causes b, but the correlation is obvious.

Interesting... but like you said, it's just a correlation. Could as much be that people are less likely to work many hours when there's full employment, or when a country is richer.

> On the other hand, there is no empirical evidence of workers' rights protection causing unemployment. That narrative often gets repeated, but that doesn't make it true.

As a business owner, every additional regulation regarding employees is increasing my cost. (And it doesn't matter if I would have agreed anyway with what the law says; I still have to waste time learning it, more paperwork, less flexibility.) So I know that the more regulation there is in this field, the less I'm inclined to hire. It's not a narrative, that's my reality.


> As a business owner, every additional regulation regarding employees is increasing my cost.

My point was that it doesn't matter if every other business in your industry bears the same burden, too. Your competitive position stays the same. No profit opportunities are lost.


This. There is an American mindset which needs to change. We have a lot of businesses complaining about regulations, yet other countries with more regulation seem to conduct business in a profitable manner. In fact, it could be argued that the businesses operating in a more regulated environment, are probably more robust than their American counterparts because the regulations add stability and reduced uncertainty.

A lot of American business owners complain that their business is "hanging on by a thread". This is because they are operating at the lowest energy state which provides little safety margin for failure. If there were stronger regulations in America, then fragile business models would not be able to attract investment.


Unemployment rates in those countries has nothing to do with EU regulations, and a lot more to do with the local taxes and country's stability.


Of course; I was answering the user who made a snarky comment using a single handpicked data point.

I did not say it was caused by EU regulations, just that Europeans (which include local governments) are in a vicious circle.


You're implying they are in a vicious circle because of these regulations.


So you basically agree that if different countries employ similar regulations and work protection laws and have different employment levels, the latter does not really depend on the former ?


The last thing we want is less regulation and employee protections.


Yup, right into step 3.


The high unemployment rates are mostly a direct result of the financial crash (ironically, itself caused by not enough regulation) and resulting austerity measures and cuts to services.

They have very little to do with worker protections. If they did it would have been like this for a long time before 2008. They weren't.

It's not a zero-sum game where the only way you keep unemployment low is by going full USA and stripping workers of any kind of protection at all.


The US doesn't have any protections at all? Like none?

I guess that would explain why I do software dev in a working salt mine.




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