I just see a ton of reflexive AI hate here. I don't care if it was vibe coded, if it passes the entire test suite and was vibe coded by the original authors, I trust it as much as the original Bun. These are Jarred's words about it:
> it’s basically the same codebase except now we can have the compiler enforce the lifetimes of types and we get destructors when we want them. and the ugly parts look uglier (unsafe) which encourages refactoring.
> why: I am so tired of worrying about & spending lots of time fixing memory leaks and crashes and stability issues. it would be so nice if the language provided more powerful tools for preventing these things.
This is such a bad faith argument. How long would it take a dev or a team of devs to do this with the same architecture and test suite? A hell of a lot longer than 6 days..
But what is the purpose? When you rewrite a project in another language, it's for engineers to be able to maintain and further develop the project better on some metrics due to advantages of the language. It doesn't hold when LLM does the rewrite, since there is no one who understands the code after that.
It's a good demonstration of capabilities, sure, but the result itself makes no sense. We'll have to figure out where these capabilities can bring real advantage
I agree that the comment is insightful, but I don’t think AI companies are particularly promoting rewrites, other than that it’s a task LLMs are good at as “the code is the spec”.
The industry as a whole still is realizing that any LLM usage that actually writes all the code for you is causing cognitive debt, and we’re even slowly losing our skills of the art.
I’m trying my best to navigate this myself, but no matter what we do, using LLMs is both a blessing and a curse.
> When you rewrite a project in another language, it's for engineers to be able to maintain and further develop the project better
I don't think that is the case here. Bun is pretty much using AI to write all of it's code, with a human reviewing it. Zig exists as a language to provide a nice DX over C and Rust, not to be memory safe. If you are using an LLM to generate code, the DX benefits are removed and so then why would you ever choose Zig over Rust?
Becase no one has written it. You can't ask the guy who has written it, not because this guy has left, but because he does not exist. Also, it often reads weirdly.
I disagree with calling this bad faith. For instance:
* I can agive you one quarter of amazing profits, if you let me dismantle and sell all the assets of a company.
* I can give you a few years of incredible food production, if you let me strip a rainforest and plant commercial crops.
* I can give you incredibly cheap energy, if you let me mine non renewing fossil fuels from the earth.
The context of why something is possible matters. In this case, because a very large and comprehensive test suite was seen as a necessity to specify a successful project (managed by humans). I do not believe a LLM coded project could ever have made such a test suite. In this case, the LLM is consuming the result of expensive human labor (the test suite) to make what ultimately is a minor variation to it (the implementation language).
> This is such a bad faith argument. How long would it take a dev or a team of devs to do this with the same architecture and test suite? A hell of a lot longer than 6 days..
Pocket calculator also can multiply numbers much faster than engineer, it doesn't make it engineer itself..
People want to use stuff like this as somehow evidence for AI being able to write entire software systems in a few days. We saw the same shit with the "compiler" they made with a bunch of agents. Literally the only reason it's possible is because the hundreds of thousands of man hours and God knows how much money that was poured into the reference projects befoes the AI got anywhere near it.
To replicate this kind of thing with a green field project would take an absolute ton of spec work and requirements derivation, which will substantially eat into any savings from having AI generate it.
The accomplishment itself is interesting, and unlocks opportunities to do work no one would have bothered with before, but it doesn't represent what a lot of people desperately want it to.
I have several sources of data I want to fetch, retry, process periodically. Like exporting Claude chats into .md files that go to Obsidian, fetching Garmin data from the API and processing it for a custom tool, exporting replays for a game, maybe even running some browser automation to get bank CSVs. I have some ad-hoc python scripts for all of this but no central way to manage them, schedule, handle errors and retries, store the original data and processed versions, resume from the last point etc.. is a workflow engine useful for something like that?
Agree with other response, look at Dagster for this.
If you want to roll your own, you build a dependency graph (a dict) of the functions you want to call, Python already has graphlib.TopologicalSorter built in that can do this for you. Throw in logging and the tenacity library for retries and you’re set.
I've used Dagster but I can't compare to airflow. But in terms of DX, I've found Dagster pretty easy to use. Instead of writing their own DSL, they have a python library that lets yo tag your pre-made methods as @ops and and string them together into a DAG.
Awesome, I hope we see a lot more of this. Co-ops do work, REI is one, Modo is another and we could have many more. Over and over again companies are slowly destroyed by extractive shareholders or PE firms, the current structure of a public company is not the only possible shape.
A period documentary about the Meridian Triumph motorcycles co op. Sad, thoughtful take on a particular bit of British manufacturing history. That the co op started with a strike, had to trade exclusively with a single customer, and that the senior workers became the managers they hated.
Due to the structure of that co op there was no way for them to access the capital they needed to redevelop their products and it ended up in private hands as a result, leaving the workers with nothing. I don’t think I would wish a co op on anybody.
Thanks I will watch it, looks interesting. But i would say there's also a million documentaries, movies, news reports, examples and more about insane, evil, stupid shit that goes on in various corporations or how organizations turn to shit when acquired by PE as well. We know for example that cigarette companies knew their products caused cancer and other health problems for decades(!) while denying it publicly, and this is the bar regulators expect today - that they will do absolutely anything including letting people die through smoking or pollution or blocking access to healthcare to make a profit. So a co-op going poorly doesn't invalidate the concept.
No doubt there is evil in the corporate world. I do think there is something in that documentary that changed my mind about a few things. It might not be representative o today since we’re talking 1970s UK but thought provoking anyway.
Do they really? Even on linux, I can look at what bandwidth a device is connected with using lsusb, but there is no way to tell if a low speed is a limitation of the device or the cable. It just displays the speed that was negotiated considering all factors. I've never found a way to get information about a cable digitally.
Yep I would agree as a patient. My current doctor types so slow that 6 out of the 10 short minutes in an appointment just disappear while he types. Even with other docs who can touch type, it will free them up to focus completely on the appointment and reduce the hours they spend charting afterwards.
The modern US conservative party really does seem to believe only in that one principle and nothing else. They will pardon actual sex traffickers like Andrew Tate and worse as long as they're on their side. They will defend any action at all by Trump, no matter how vile or illegal or stupid or wrong. It's not a sleight of hand if its true.
Go read a few months worth of the National Review.
Many prominent conservative thinkers are not particularly big fans of Trump. They like portions of his initiatives and policies but not him as a standard bearer, because he does dumb, ill-principled stuff at odds with conservatism.
Peggy Noonan of the WSJ can't write two sentences without letting you know how much she disdains Trump, e.g.
A few annecdotal voices dont change reality; american conservatism is poisoned, and must be rejected by all sane/moral humans for multiple generations.
I guess I should clarify it to the modern US conservative party. I know there are a few dissenters even there, but 95% of them vote the way he wants and of course we could have impeached Trump and many cabinet officials long ago if they voted that way. They unquestionably enable this administration. I think its fair to say they represent the conservatives broadly, certainly they are the people the nations conservative citizens elected and continue to support.
>Peggy Noonan of the WSJ can't write two sentences without letting you know how much she disdains Trump, e.g.
This is the functional equivalent of a fictional character named Neggy Poonan saying "I really hate the Nazi's, but you know if I don't vote for Hitler the other guy will win"
I think everyone I see writing anywhere whether these comments or substacks or just talking to in real life, we all pretty much agree on why we're sad. Its the same 5-6 reasons. We all know. There are much deeper analyses showing trends that started in the 1980s that took away our power too.
It's just that the government does not properly measure any of these things and doesn't work for us anymore. We've all been trained to constantly ask WHY things are broken and argue about it but never take any real action to change them. Trained to pretend a protest on a weekend and a post on FB is the height of activism, to forget what really collectively demanding and creating change looks like. The number of atrocities committed by this government weekly is insane, all anyone talks about is keeping up or not keeping up with the news, no concept at all of collective power to make them accountable. Let's just wait 3 years and hope the next government does that - while history clearly shows they will not, and cannot in many cases given the law.
1. Breakdown of community & support structures. Isolated, atomized society. Few friends and family, weak relationships between them, dating market accustomed to infinite choice.
2. Power increasingly shifting to capital over labor, leading to tougher and exploitative work conditions, lower wages, tougher job markets etc. for labor. Also affects us as consumers dealing with oligopolies or monopolies. Somehow we saw a world where a ton of us worked remote, it worked at least 80% as well in exchange for huge worker benefits, but its going away because we don't have any power and no one is looking out for us. Now we have massive inflation and I don't think anyone believes that a big chunk of it isn't just greedy opportunistic price gouging. Every single thing I see about any job in any field, its about how they are losing power, getting more work for less pay, jumping through more bullshit hoops, field is turning from being run by practitioners to being run by psychopaths in PE firms. This is even in medicine, like people who directly help people everyday feel their job lacks purpose because of the amount of paperwork, huge overwork and under-staffing in general coming down to centralization in the health care system, increasing oligopolization and insurance power - same power shifting from labor to capital.
3. Absolute breakdown of government institutions, regulators and justice for powerful people. Epstein files - actual child abusing pedophile billionaires, lawyers, senators all face no consequence besides maybe losing a very cushy job. President pardons all kinds of corrupt buddies. What kind of clown believes in a justice system when this happens weekly? ICE officers kill or abuse victims without consequences. Can't build a single train line in the time China built millions and millions of miles. Congress gridlocked for a decade now. Perception that government is completely ineffective, and not at all accountable to us or working for us. Its linked to point above as well, with capital being more powerful than government, or in bed with them in many cases.
4. Higher exposure to negative news, media algorithms, social media etc. It's all been covered before. Fear and anger sells. Billion dollar companies with 1000s of very smart employees trying their hardest to addict you to their app, which makes your life worse. Seemingly constant state of emergency or crisis, one crisis to the next.
I read the article after writing this, I think the author had very similar points. I think most complaints roughly come down into these buckets and root causes.
The only missing piece is the understanding that this will not fix itself anymore, the will to collectively agree on the bad actors, organize, take back power, enforce consequences.
Yeah I feel like papering over the physical aspect actually misses the main motivation for columnar storage in the first place, which is to more efficiently store some types of data and perform OLAP queries on it.
There are lots of leaked emails showing Zuck is creepy. Recent one I saw where he is directly in the conversations about targeting teens/children. There's a twitter account [1] that posts emails from tech execs that have come out in legal proceedings - it shows the people at the top are very much informed and driving what happens in their companies.
> it’s basically the same codebase except now we can have the compiler enforce the lifetimes of types and we get destructors when we want them. and the ugly parts look uglier (unsafe) which encourages refactoring.
> why: I am so tired of worrying about & spending lots of time fixing memory leaks and crashes and stability issues. it would be so nice if the language provided more powerful tools for preventing these things.
This makes me trust it more, not less.
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