now, actually

https://www.citilink.ru/product/noutbuk-apple-macbook-pro-m1...

6400$

1 - there will be no Ukraine by the time any of current measures start hurting anyone other than pedestrians. the measures that would work are not being considered seriously by anyone that matters

2 - state-funded actors will still have access to the internet

3 - state agencies will still have access to the internet

4 - pedestrians will still have access to the intranet

5 - it doesn't do anything about the nukes, and as for the threat of Russian tanks rolling their way into Germany, which has been on everyone's minds for the past 8 years, well, don't you feel silly now

The question was what's the goal.

It's not just limiting current war capacity, but also limiting future war capacity and funds.

From my POV, that seems to be working. You say it isn't, based on what?

> the measures that would work are not being considered seriously

And what are successfull measures according to you?

Additionally, you are severely underestimating what Russia requires to occupy Ukraine vs. Invading. They need an additional willing 500 k. Troops for that. They don't have the numbers and even their FSB report mentions that.

Ps. His children live in Europe, i doubt he'll drop bombs here.

>From my POV, that seems to be working. You say it isn't, based on what?

China. they're doing fine without the internet

>And what are successfull measures according to you?

military intervention from the US

>Ps. His children live in Europe, i doubt he'll drop bombs here.

I wish I had your certainty. I've given up trying to predict the future. I hope you're right

China isn't that disconnected, the question is how many know English which accomplishes most of their goals. Many IT Russians know English and they are fleeing the country.

Military US intervention is dumb at the current time. US is near China to protect Taiwan, intervening for Russia would be an overreaction at this point.

Europe can handle this if it escalates, Russia isn't that powerful in their army as their propaganda claims.

In practice, they sold most of their modern equipment to have money. Europe didn't need that.

Just look at the numbers, eg. GDP. Russia is way overreaching it's hand.

It isn't the Soviet era no more when it was somewhat equal to the US.

I don't like this situation either and it's cruel. But crunching the numbers, knowing that their equipment is mostly of the Soviet era and not maintained + ignoring propaganda makes it more 'comfortable' to not 'overreact'. Eg. Who will even maintain their tech systems? The people that know English ( and can use it to learn) are fleeing the country. I see thousands of Russian tech people trying to get out of the country mostly to Europe/Canada.

There is no one to immediately replace them. solely learning English takes long enough and that's just a single bottleneck they are experiencing now.

> there will be no Ukraine by the time any of current measures start hurting anyone other than pedestrians. the measures that would work are not being considered seriously by anyone that matters

The measures that would work such as direct sanctions and seizing the assets of a bunch of oligarchs, Putin and his ministers? Which were step 1? Or freezing the Russian central bank's foreign currency reserves?

Furthermore, 2 weeks in, Ukraine is holding out, Russia is bleeding men and equipment, and their advance is pretty much stalled on almost all fronts. They're mobilising museum pieces from the Far East and random civilians vehicles to send to Ukraine, so it doesn't seem like the equipment situation is great. I doubt a mass mobilisation will be gladly accepted by the Russian population, so to what extent they can deal with those loses is yet to see.

Even if Russia manages to conquer all of Ukraine, they couldn't occupy it for lack of troops.

>The measures that would work such as ...

measures that would get Russia to withdraw

>Even if Russia manages to conquer all of Ukraine, they couldn't occupy it for lack of troops.

the only if in this war is whether Ukraine surrenders before or after its cities get Second Chechen War treatment

You haven't given any example.

The best measure for forcing Russia to withdraw is lack of funds.

At least give a decent alternative that would work... I tried to think of "any" other and there is no viable one.

Except if China would remove the lifeline, which they won't. Since they can buy Russian energy/food companies for pennies on the dollar.

https://wap.business-standard.com/article-amp/international/... ( + other sources are easily found)

Looks like modern colonization to me.

>I still don't get what other expectations are on the table when the western world talks about cutting Russians off the internet.

based on my observations over the last two weeks, it's unironically something along the lines of "zoomers throwing molotovs at the police over being deprived of fortnite", because the people who come up with these fantasies project their character traits upon a radically different population. something akin to expecting the Afghani to take up arms against the Taliban over that one McDonald's shutting down in Kabul.

>There is also the fact that we all thought the Russian Army was a well oiled machine of war.

that's what you've been told at the time when it was required for you to think so, in particular during Trump's presidency due to his stance on NATO.

today you are required to think that Russia is getting its ass kicked, and tomorrow you'll be required to think that Russia must be nuked or else Europe will fall, and the expert opinion will once again change to reflect that.

But we've always been at war with oceania.

You must think I am 18/20 years old or something. It may surprise you to know that I remember times before Trump was president. And there wasn't social media to 'guide' my thinking.

I suppose you don't call removal of LGBTP+ elements from the media released in Russia/China/MENA "censorship" either, just private companies exercising their rights, right?

> I suppose you don't call removal of LGBTP+ elements from the media released in Russia/China/MENA "censorship" either, just private companies exercising their rights, right?

I would call it censorship. But in those examples you listed, I would attribute it to the government and not the company. Because by removing those elements, they are not "exercising their rights to do so", they are "complying with local laws and regulations by doing so".

For a specific example: in Russia, "propaganda of homosexualty" (which includes something as trivial as explicitly acknowledging that one of the main characters is attracted to a person, or people in general, of the same sex) is against the law and is heavily punished.

So in reality, those companies only have two options: sell their product with those elements removed for that specific market or become unable to legally sell their product in that market at all.

Is it censorship? I would argue "yes", but I wouldn't say that the censorship is done by the company. If that action was required in order to be in compliance with local laws and regulations, I would call it for what it actually is - government censorship. After all, they are the ones making those laws and regulations that decide what is allowed and what needs to be removed.

>Making things painful for them is one way to do that.

The problem with this sentiment is that you're assuming that Russians are anything like your people.

We'll endure being deprived of Lego toys and Disney cartoons just fine.

Did you protest against your government back in 2015-2016, when half a thousand of your men, women and children got shot, blown up or smeared on the sidewalks in retaliation for two decades of your government's involvement in destabilizing countries, hundreds of thousand people dead and millions more displaced?

You didn't? Oh, was it not justified to hold your civilian population accountable for the actions of your democratically elected and re-elected leaders? Or did you just not get annoyed enough?